Rebel Flesh reaction post

[dbskyler]

Quick reactions to "The Rebel Flesh":

1) I didn't particularly like it.

2) Not only did I not care about anyone in the acid factory, but I couldn't keep them all straight. In fact, I wasn't even sure how many of them there were until I counted at the end. If you want me to care about doppelganger clones of people, you should start by making me care about the people. And making me care about the people starts with me knowing how many people I'm supposed to be caring about. These are serious structural faults with the episode.

3) I could see the cliffhanger coming a mile away -- well, I'm sure everyone could -- but I still didn't like it when it came. First, I just don't like the idea of clone!Doctor. Second, it felt way too similar to the creation of Jenny in "The Doctor's Daughter." Finally, if you're setting us up for this big "OMG it's doppelgangered the Doctor!" cliffhanger, then give us some consequences to having a doppelganger! So far, the only bad thing about having a doppelganger is that someone else makes little fake pyramids just like your grandpa taught you. I mean, come on.

It's possible that the second half will be amazing, and make up for this, but I'm not holding my breath. Especially as BBC America is not showing the second half until June 4th, which would be a lot of breath-holding. So much for being on the same schedule as the UK . . .

Comments

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

It's a bit much asking for the consequences of having a doppleganger to be shown when it's only one half of a two parter.

And sure, the ganger!Doctor was entirely predictable - but have you considered what might happen if it stabilises (eg. the beginning of The Impossible Astronaut suddenly looks quite different)?

Don't know why you had trouble keeping the people straight - there were only four of them (until their Gangers became independent and then there were 8 for a time).

[shadowturquoise.livejournal.com]

Actually there were 5 (10) of them. I couldn't keep them straight either. I've seen a lot of posts similar to this from people who couldn't get engaged by the guest cast. I couldn't get interested the first time I watched it because I couldn't understand a single word any of them said except for the leader. This seems to be a popular comment with other Americans as well. I finally rewatched it with the speed on 80% and I've figured out most of the dialogue now. Mind you, I love to learn to understand different accents, so I'm not complaining too much about that. It's the unfamiliar accents combined with sloppy character development that makes it frustrating.

Aside from the accents I felt there simply was no character development for most of them. In Silence in the Library we had a good feel for all 5 of the guest casts' personality very early on, making it interesting. That seemed to be missing in this current episode.

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

I had some trouble with the accents too, although I did understand most of the dialogue; there were just a couple of places where it went by too fast or too accented for me to catch. I tried to do a re-watch before this reaction post because I wondered if I would like the episode better if I had understood the dialogue I missed, but I couldn't get through it a second time, for the worst possible reason: it bored me. Once I knew what the ganger reveals were going to be, there was absolutely nothing left to hold my interest. That's a terrible thing to encounter in a Doctor Who episode.

In Silence in the Library we had a good feel for all 5 of the guest casts' personality very early on, making it interesting. That seemed to be missing in this current episode.

Yes, exactly! For example, just think how much we learn about Other Dave from his brief dialogue where he explains that he's called Other Dave. I *cared* when he died. I cared when Dave died. I cared when Anita died. I cared when Miss Evangelista died. They were all characters I felt I had gotten to know, not just "members of River's group."

Also, think how everyone on the cruiser was introduced in "Midnight," and how the survivor group was introduced in "Voyage of the Damned." It's been ages since I've seen VotD, but I can still tell you tons more about Morvin and Foon than I can tell you about anyone in "Rebel Flesh"'s guest cast.

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

Yep, there were five people. Don't ask me to name them, though. I spent most of the episode thinking there were three people, then I realized there were more than three, but I didn't know how many. So then I actually went to the trouble of counting them. But my point is, I shouldn't have had to do that. The episode itself should have given everyone a memorable moment or interaction so I knew how many people there were, and what's more, knew something about all of them -- preferably something to make me care about them.

It's a bit much asking for the consequences of having a doppleganger to be shown when it's only one half of a two parter.

Certainly I expect most of the consequences to play out in this week's episode (next week for me, sigh), but that doesn't excuse the writer from setting up the cliffhanger. Sure, the mere existence of ganger!Doctor is creepy, but other than that, part one seemed to go out of its way to say how wonderful the Gangers were, and how they should all have one big party together. So how am I supposed to be feeling after the cliffhanger? The Doctor's not the last Time Lord anymore, yay?

have you considered what might happen if it stabilises (eg. the beginning of The Impossible Astronaut suddenly looks quite different)?

Honestly, this is what worries me the most. I despise the idea that dead!Doctor might be ganger!Doctor. I think it would be a cheat, especially as we were explicitly told that the Doctor who died wasn't a clone.

[cavgirl.livejournal.com]

I'm not a fan of this story either. It feels as if Moffat had been watching a little too much BSG beforehand - those tubs are SO like the resurrection tubs they're spooky, and the whole attitude of the humans to their gangers is also very BSG. I know there have been hints about this story feeding into the eventual season finale, but I'm not so sure...

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

The BSG connection didn't bother me, actually, but yes, the tubs are similar to BSG resurrection tubs, I agree.

At this point I'm hoping it *doesn't* feed into the season finale . . . maybe I'll change my mind after part two, though.

[shadowturquoise.livejournal.com]

Despite the reservations I posted above, there are a few good things about this episode that I realized on the 2nd viewing. If you count characters and track their whereabouts and closely there seems to be something fishy going on.

Also Rory has some great scenes. He has been through what these gangers are going through (realizing he was a copy and not the real Rory) and Arthur is playing it very well.

There is a lot of mutually exclusive angles of speculation of how this is going to end up and I'm curious to see which is right.

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

As I said above, I couldn't even get through it a second time, so I'll have to take your word for it on the tracking. The missing hour is certainly fishy, though.

As for Rory, he did have some great scenes, but that wasn't enough to rescue the episode for me.

[avarill.livejournal.com]

I'm with you on this one. I couldn't keep track of the guest cast, and worse, I didn't really care. And that's the worst sin a Who story can make. I don't mind if it's cheesy or nonsensical or whatever; I just don't want to be bored.

The guest cast were a lot more engaging in the Confidential! I couldn't get a feel for the characters in the story, unlike other guest ensembles in previous episodes. And the accents were very problematic. I'm normally very good at them, but this time I was just confused to the point where I didn't care what happened next.

The arrival of the Doctor!ganger was promising, so maybe there's an awesome payoff here. Let's hope so. I don't like being bored when watching Who.

Interesting how this season is progressing -- there have been three episodes I was over the moon about, and two that made me want to throw things at the television. I don't want to flatten out the highs, but some middle ground would be nice.

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

And that's the worst sin a Who story can make. I don't mind if it's cheesy or nonsensical or whatever; I just don't want to be bored.

Agreed 1000%. I can't stand Last of the Time Lords' Jesus!Tinkerbell!Doctor, but at least that scene didn't bore me.

I hope there will be an awesome payoff in part two. It's certainly possible.

[clocketpatch]

Hmmm...

I remember Chris-from-Life-on-Mars who is bumbly and got pushed into an acid vat, the jokey woman who pushed him in, the guy who's ganger kept going on about "he's both our son", the leader woman (who reminded me strongly of Adelaide in Waters of Mars), and Jennifer... who is the only one I can put a name to to be totally honest.

My personal biggest WTF was the whole acid mine concept... acid is a property of a substance, a class of substances, it's not a THING in and of its self. So what are they mining and what for? I mean, initially, I thought that they were mining for the flesh stuff itself, which would've made more sense to me. I also had several WTFs at the solar tsunami thing, though... it was a better representation than the solar flares in the Daleks Take Manhattan episodes. Power surges and random auroras are scientifically backed...

Uh, yeah, that was a bit of an odd rant. What I liked? The creepy atmosphere was well realized. The opening shot of Rory playing darts went straight to my ovaries. Rory in general... he hears music before the audience which made me think of him being plastic, him and Amy wake up in a different room from the one they fell unconscious in (right next to a flesh vat), Rory has his whole "I understand I was plastic too once" moment (without actually revealing the whole plastic thing). And there was a random reference to Japanese mythology... though whether it was intentional or not I couldn't say.

The cliffhanger I will admit was really REALLY obvious. It was obvious from the second we saw the ganger make-up because they had that lingering shot of the Doctor done up like that in the series trailer. Yeah. I'm curious to see how they interact though, and I'm curious to see if Amy and Rory are actually gangers or if my theorizing and attention is merely the result of really sloppy continuity editing.

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

You did better than me in knowing something about all the workers. I had a vague idea that Jennifer was the one who was "jokey woman," but you're right, she was different. Jennifer's the only name I know, too. Do we know anything about her? I mean, about real Jennifer? Well, I don't, and that's a problem.

I hate to say it, but I don't even care if Amy and Rory have been gangered. We already have the Doctor, so what's two more?

Yeah, if they'd been mining the flesh, that would've been far more interesting, and it would've made more sense, too.