"Time of Angels," aka Crash of the Byzantium!

[dbskyler]

This reaction post will contain squee, meanderings about River Song and two-week-old spoilers.



So I'm slow on the uptake, but I didn't even realize that this episode was the crash of the Byzantium that River referred to back in "Silence in the Library" until persiflage_1 pointed it out to me. Which is on the one hand way cool, and on the other hand a bit problematic for my viewpoint on that scene. See, I'd always assumed that the picnic at Asgard and the crash of the Byzantium must be events that happened to Ten since River a) recognizes Ten as the Doctor and b) knows that Ten is "early days" in his knowledge of her. However, we now have unequivocal proof that the crash happens to Eleven. So, it is now plausible that River just knew that Ten must be the Doctor without having actually met him before (after all, it's a pretty safe assumption for her to make, and also she apparently has pictures). She therefore must not know the order of the incarnations, and must think it possible that Ten came after Eleven, even though she somehow still knows it's one of his "early days" incarnations. That would suggest that she doesn't necessarily meet Ten at all other than in "Silence/Forest," and also suggest that she doesn't do a whole lot of meeting up with Eleven either. Just which incarnation does she consider "her" Doctor, anyway?

I feel that it's presently an unanswerable question as to whether Ten met up with River again or not (unless of course it's answered next week . . . ). Either way, it's interesting to see Eleven's reaction to River in this episode. He definitely doesn't seem particularly close to her, and in fact seems mostly annoyed that she's shown up again -- it's very much a follow-on from his attitude in "Silence / Forest," in fact. He's resigned to the fact that she knows all this stuff about him but doesn't seem very happy about it, or happy about the way she uses him as a taxi service (not that I blame him on that one). In fact, the way he acts towards her reminded me of the way he used to treat the Time Lords when they would interfere in his life -- doing what's immediately asked and then trying to get out of there, until he's drawn into the current crisis.

That one line -- "he doesn't know who and what you are yet" -- was very provocative. Who and what could River be? My first wild thought was that she's the Rani or someone like that, but it doesn't make sense for her to be a Time Lord, because surely the Doctor would sense that. (And she can't be a fobwatched Time Lord because whatever this mystery is, River herself knows what it is.) Also, her character isn't like the Rani's character. Is she a time agent, like Jack? Is she a criminal? What was she in prison for? How many incarnations of the Doctor has she met by this time? I don't think she knows his name yet, but that's just a guess on my part.

I was a little disappointed that Amy brought up the theory about River being his wife, because I personally detest that theory and really, really hope that it doesn't turn out to be true. I just don't like the idea that the only way River could have a special relationship with the Doctor is because he married her. It reinforces an assumption that the ultimate goal of a companion is to get married (either to the Doctor or to, say, random scientists about to leave for the Amazon), and I don't like that assumption, for both personal and feminist reasons. I want River to know the Doctor's name because a) he trusts her that much and b) she helps him to resolve whatever situation caused him to have to hide his name in the first place. I want that line of the Doctor's -- "there's only one reason why I would ever tell my name" -- to refer to something huge, not just getting married. I mean, why would getting married be the one time he can tell his name? (Okay, my own biases are showing here, but if I can't air my personal biases in my personal journal, where else can I air them?)

Anyway, the whole Doctor/River thing is very interesting, and I'm looking forward to next week, and I also hope River comes back again in the future. Or rather, I hope that we get to see at least some of when she comes back again in the future, since the fact of her coming back again seems pretty much assured, unless of course time gets rewritten because of some big crack in the universe or something.

And speaking of cracks, for some reason BBC America didn't show the "next time" trailer after their broadcast, but inexplicably did show it when I re-watched the episode through my cable system's "on demand" service (which I used for re-watching since a) it has fewer commercials than my recording and b) I like to think that someone somewhere is making note of how many people request the program). Anyway, I just saw the "next time" trailer and holy crack in the wall, Batman! Wow! I was not expecting that the Doctor would be coming face-to-face with the crack so soon, but apparently so. Also apparently the "don't blink" gets turned around to "don't open your eyes." That's going to be interesting. Very interesting. Very, very interesting. It will be even more interesting to see if I manage to wait the whole week for part 2, or go searching for it on the internet. Stay tuned to find out!

Well, I've been blathering on for awhile now and have managed to not even review the episode yet. So, a few quick thoughts about what I loved about it:

-- the way that River sends a message to the Doctor. The whole "it will end up in a museum" idea was very creative, and I also loved what it says about the Doctor's character that he goes to museums to laugh at what they get wrong and also keep score ("that's one of mine"), and it's especially wonderful that River knows this about him. Plus she sent a message in Old High Gallifreyan, as seen in "The Five Doctors!" Classic Who reference for the win! It even looked like Old High Gallifreyan (i.e., like the Greek alphabet and not like those geometric circle things).

-- the way the Doctor calls Amy "Pond." It just . . . goes with his tweed coat, somehow. Anyway, I've decided I really like it. In fact, I really liked Matt Smith's performance throughout this episode, which was a huge relief after the last two episodes. I want to like him, I really really do!

-- The labyrinth being full of Weeping Angels. When I saw a preview of this week's episode and saw all the statues, I assumed they were all Weeping Angels, so was actually very disappointed when it looked like they were just camouflage for the one real Angel. That moment when the Doctor and River realize that they're all Weeping Angels was both genuinely creepy and also a big "yay!" moment for me. (Okay, yes, I wanted them to be surrounded by killer statues, what can I say.) By the way, I also loved how the Doctor and River realized the truth at the same time, and both knew that the other had realized the truth without either of them saying anything. It was a nice "connection" moment between them that helps to sell the idea that they do become close at some point even though right now the Doctor is mostly annoyed by her, and she is mostly amused by him.

-- Amy figuring out how to save herself from the Angel-coming-out-of-the-looped-tape all by herself. Another example of how she's very capable, and I love that in a companion.

-- Amy trying to get the Doctor to leave her to die, and the Doctor refusing to leave, and then the Doctor biting her on the hand! That was a wonderful moment.

-- The Doctor's speech about how there's one thing you don't put in a trap -- him! Also, I have to give props to Matt Smith, because that's the kind of line that can come across as incredibly hokey if it's not sold correctly, but he delivered it very, very well, and I was all "Damn straight! Go Doctor!" at that moment. It wasn't even a problem that the moment was similar to his moment in "Eleventh Hour" when he said "Basically . . . run." I think that perhaps Eleven can say things like that every episode and manage to get away with it. We'll see.

Finally, I was just very happy to get a good episode -- in fact, a really good one. I hope next week's part 2 is just as strong!

Comments

[shadowturquoise.livejournal.com]

I don't necessarily want River to be his wife, but I DO want her to be a significant other of some kind. My only problem with the wife part is that it is egotistical of us as humans to assume life on other planets follow the same social structure that we are familiar with on Earth.

I agree with you that I don't think she knows his name yet here. I can't really put my finger on why. But I do think she met Ten more than once. I was also disappointed and confused, for the same reasons as you, that the Bysantum is an Eleven adventure and not an unseen Ten story. But notice that the Doctor told Amy "we keep meeting in the wrong order. This implies more than one meeting (from his POV) so far. Moff mentioned this line in an interview and said that this is what it implies. That's good enough for me!

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

I don't necessarily want River to be his wife, but I DO want her to be a significant other of some kind.

I think it is clear that she is very significant in some way. I don't know why I dislike the marriage idea so much, but I do.

But notice that the Doctor told Amy "we keep meeting in the wrong order. This implies more than one meeting (from his POV) so far.

Good point; that does definitely imply that there has been at least one other meeting, and there was certainly a lot of time in between those specials when Ten could've met up with her. Although it's interesting that the Doctor's still very much not reconciled to it yet.

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

To be fair to Moffat, he had *no* idea, when he wrote that line about the Crash of the Byzantium, that Tennant would be leaving and that it wouldn't be a Ten adventure. Also, the reference to "early days" (to Eleven) means early in this incarnation. And I suspect when Moffat had River comment on Ten looking so young, it's because he never expected a much younger actor to take over as the Doctor once Tennant eventually left (and in fact, once it was clear Tennant was leaving, Moffat was pushing for an older actor to play Eleven - until Matt Smith convinced him that he should play the Doctor).

I love the way the Doctor's and River's relationship develops over the course of the 2 parter (won't say more!)

Oh, and people have suggested River's a fobwatched Rani. I really hope she's not - I don't want River to be anyone other than herself.

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

To be fair to Moffat, he had *no* idea, when he wrote that line about the Crash of the Byzantium, that Tennant would be leaving and that it wouldn't be a Ten adventure.

Not only that, but did he even know there would ever be another River episode at all at that point? I know he was announced as the next show-runner around the time of that broadcast, but would he have known back during the writing, which must have been months and months earlier? Even if he had known he would be taking over the show, would he have known that he'd definitely want to bring River back, or that Alex Kingston would be willing to reprise the role?

I guess I just don't believe he had "crash of the Byzantium" plotted out back then; I think it more likely that he threw it in as something that sounded good, and then later decided to use it for the plot of these episodes.

Also, the reference to "early days" (to Eleven) means early in this incarnation.

Yes, but I'm thinking of the line in "Silence in the Library" when River says "Going by your face, it's early days for you," which implies that she knows that since it's Ten, it must be early in their relationship for him. Which then means that it's odd for her to ask if Ten remembers the crash when the crash happens to Eleven, and the only way around it is to assume that she doesn't know the order of the incarnations. Which is plausible.

I suspect when Moffat had River comment on Ten looking so young, it's because he never expected a much younger actor to take over as the Doctor

Actually, I took that at complete face value -- to me, River's not commenting on how young Ten's face looks, but on how young his eyes look, and how young he actually is -- she says "you're younger than I've ever seen you," and she's correct about that. So it's not a problem for me that he looks superficially older than Eleven; he's younger at that point, and River just sees that in him.

I love the way the Doctor's and River's relationship develops over the course of the 2 parter

Oooh, I'll look forward to seeing that!

I don't want River to be anyone other than herself.

I agree!

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

Not only that, but did he even know there would ever be another River episode at all at that point? I know he was announced as the next show-runner around the time of that broadcast, but would he have known back during the writing, which must have been months and months earlier? Even if he had known he would be taking over the show, would he have known that he'd definitely want to bring River back, or that Alex Kingston would be willing to reprise the role?

I shouldn't think he did know that River would definitely be back - although the production team may have asked Alex if she'd be willing. I remember a lot of people expressing the view we wouldn't see her again, because of Alex's recent TV work in the US, but when I heard she was doing 'Hope Springs' in Scotland, I said to my mum that I reckoned she'd be back to play River again.

I guess I just don't believe he had "crash of the Byzantium" plotted out back then; I think it more likely that he threw it in as something that sounded good, and then later decided to use it for the plot of these episodes.

According to a recent interview with Alex he's got all sorts of River/Doctor stories 'worked out' - though I've no idea in how much detail he's worked them out.

Yes, but I'm thinking of the line in "Silence in the Library" when River says "Going by your face, it's early days for you," which implies that she knows that since it's Ten, it must be early in their relationship for him. Which then means that it's odd for her to ask if Ten remembers the crash when the crash happens to Eleven, and the only way around it is to assume that she doesn't know the order of the incarnations. Which is plausible.

It is plausible, especially since she comments on needing a "Spotter's Guide" to the Doctor (which I found hilarious!)

Actually, I took that at complete face value -- to me, River's not commenting on how young Ten's face looks, but on how young his eyes look, and how young he actually is -- she says "you're younger than I've ever seen you," and she's correct about that. So it's not a problem for me that he looks superficially older than Eleven; he's younger at that point, and River just sees that in him.

Well, that depends on when she gets to meet his other incarnations - and which of them she's met - since Fivey will also look very young to her...

Oooh, I'll look forward to seeing that!

*grins*

Oh, and for what it's worth, it's my belief that River's Doctor is Thirteen (and that's him in my icon! Girl can hope, right?!)

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

I remember a lot of people expressing the view we wouldn't see her again, because of Alex's recent TV work in the US, but when I heard she was doing 'Hope Springs' in Scotland, I said to my mum that I reckoned she'd be back to play River again.

Actually it's very exciting for me that she's playing River, because she is well known over here in the U.S. Usually when a "big name" star makes an appearance on Doctor Who, it's someone I've never heard of and don't know at all (e.g., Peter Kay, Derek Jacobi, Catherine Tate . . . on her first appearance, anyway). Okay, I did know Kylie Minogue and Timothy Dalton, but it's still exciting when I recognize a guest star, and I was already a huge fan of Alex Kingston from her work on "ER" so it's great to see her again.

It is plausible, especially since she comments on needing a "Spotter's Guide" to the Doctor (which I found hilarious!)

I loved that too! That's a vintage Moffat line, and one of the things I really enjoy about his writing is his ability to take the fantastical and break it down to the mundane like that, then tell a joke about it. (Another example -- "Who looks at a screwdriver and thinks, "This could be a little more sonic?'" I nearly choked when I first heard that, I was laughing so hard.)

that depends on when she gets to meet his other incarnations - and which of them she's met - since Fivey will also look very young to her...

But Ten is the earliest Doctor she meets, right? Unless you know something I don't (yet) know . . . Of course, we have no idea who'll get cast as Twelve and Thirteen, either. For all we know, those actors will be even younger than Matt Smith! But I still say that "young" in that scene refers to the Doctor's actual age, not his apparent age, and it's well established that that's the first time he ever meets her (from his point of view).

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

Actually it's very exciting for me that she's playing River, because she is well known over here in the U.S. Usually when a "big name" star makes an appearance on Doctor Who, it's someone I've never heard of and don't know at all (e.g., Peter Kay, Derek Jacobi, Catherine Tate . . . on her first appearance, anyway). Okay, I did know Kylie Minogue and Timothy Dalton, but it's still exciting when I recognize a guest star, and I was already a huge fan of Alex Kingston from her work on "ER" so it's great to see her again.

*grins* Whereas she's actually not *so* hugely well known over here - unless one happens to be a fan of ER or of period dramas (I am *dying* to see her in Moll Flanders!)

I loved that too! That's a vintage Moffat line, and one of the things I really enjoy about his writing is his ability to take the fantastical and break it down to the mundane like that, then tell a joke about it. (Another example -- "Who looks at a screwdriver and thinks, "This could be a little more sonic?'" I nearly choked when I first heard that, I was laughing so hard.)

Exactly!!

But Ten is the earliest Doctor she meets, right? Unless you know something I don't (yet) know . . . Of course, we have no idea who'll get cast as Twelve and Thirteen, either. For all we know, those actors will be even younger than Matt Smith! But I still say that "young" in that scene refers to the Doctor's actual age, not his apparent age, and it's well established that that's the first time he ever meets her (from his point of view).

So far, in canon, yes, Ten's the earliest - but only so far in canon. In my fanon, she's met most of them already... :P

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

Whereas she's actually not *so* hugely well known over here

Really? That's hysterical. I mean, she's not superstar status here, but most people would recognize her. Put her in a shopping mall here and stand her next to David Tennant, and all the shoppers would say "Oh look, there's Alex Kingston! And there's a guy standing next to her. Must be her bodyguard or something." Then they'd ignore him completely in their attempts to get her autograph. Except for me, of course. :D

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

Hee...