update post of updatey-ness

[dbskyler]

First off, I can't believe that the Age of Moffat is almost upon us! Just think, only 15 more days until I get to see the Eleventh Doctor's first episode!

(Okay, yes, I know that I just might be able to find it on the internet before then, but I prefer to wait for BBC America's broadcast. It will, however, be a difficult wait!)

In the meantime, I'm going to continue on with my "10 Favorite Tenth Doctor" episode countdown posts, which means I'll still be posting about Ten while all the rest of you are off raving or ranting about Eleven. Speaking of which, I'll be avoiding spoilers, so you might see me disappearing a bit from reading LJ until we've caught up over here in the backwaters of the U.S. Also, apologies in advance that my posts will be non-current, but truthfully I have no problem with being non-current -- in fact, if anyone wants to know my favorite Fourth Doctor episodes, I'm happy to oblige!

In other random news, I want to recommend that everyone go check out this marvelous new comm: dw_concrete. It's a place to put up your stories for honest, critical review, and I've already gotten some really useful feedback about one of my stories from an anonymous reviewer there.

Finally, I have an LJ-vs.-Teaspoon observation on my latest fic, "On the Benefits of Having an Attic." Here on LJ, it got a phenomenal response -- 18 people commented, which is about what I got for the initial posting of "Fallacy Somewhere," and that one went on to become arguably my most popular story. On Teaspoon, however, while I wouldn't say that "On the Benefits" has completely thumped, it has sort of thumped, especially relative to my other stories. So of course, me being me, I have to wonder: why the difference? The fic didn't get especially buried when it emerged from the Teaspoon queue. Of course, one simple explanation might be that a lot of people who would've reviewed it on Teaspoon had already reviewed it on LJ (it was posted here first), and people don't tend to review stories twice, nor should they. But I'm wondering if the real problem is the summary, which I think isn't that great. I barely notice the summaries on LJ, but on Teaspoon they're vital to drawing a reader to click on your story. I'm even wondering if I should go change the summary to something better, but I don't know if that would even make a difference this long after posting. Of course, the other alternative explanation is that Teaspoon readers don't like the story that much. I've been wondering if I should put it up for review on dw_concrete, but some of those comm members have already given me positive reviews for the fic and I'm worried it would come across as trolling for more. Of course, it would also be an opportunity for them to tell me what they really think . . . ;)

Comments

[pitry.livejournal.com]

Well, if it helps, I didn't review it on Teaspoon cos I already reviewed it on LJ. :)

I don't remember the Teaspoon summary, but you might be unto something there (actually for Teaspoon, you can also see how many people read it, so that might also be a clue?). LJ I guess is a bit more fickle that way (I wouldn't know, I don't actually post fic on Lj. Hmm.).
Wow. That was one unhelpful comment....

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

It has a pretty low hit count, which is another reason I suspect the summary as a problem -- if Teaspoon readers didn't like it, that would affect the review rate, but not the hit rate. Oh, and then there's the fact that it's a Fourth Doctor/Other Era fic. That could be an issue for Teaspoon readers, because most tend to prefer New Who.

[pitry.livejournal.com]

Yeah. The low hit count would suggest people just didn't read it/ didn't access it on Teaspoon rather than didn't like it.

Also, the fact a lot of people write New Who doesn't automatically equal avoiding reading Old Who. I can give myself as an example. I LOVE a lot of classic Who, both the TV episodes and fanfic, and read accordingly. But when I write, 99% of the time it would be Ten. Even if it's a story that can work with a different Doctor, if it doesn't have to be any specific Doctor it will be Ten. I just feel more comfortable writing him, because I KNOW I has his voice right, which is something I'm not sure of with the other Doctors...

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

Also, the fact a lot of people write New Who doesn't automatically equal avoiding reading Old Who

I agree. I've written more New Who than Classic Who stories myself, but that's not because I like New Who better, because I really do love them both. In fact, as much as I love Ten, the Fourth Doctor is still my favorite Doctor to watch on-screen, and probably always will be. I just don't tend to write him. I think it's because the Classic stories are more iconic in my head, so I have a harder time writing fanfic around them -- the new stuff is easier for me to mess with, or perhaps it's more inspiring just because it's fresh.

But, I have noticed that when I do write a Classic Who story, it tends to get less hits than when I write a New Who story. That's what I meant about Teaspoon readers mostly preferring New Who. It's not anything against them; just a trend that I've noticed.

[pitry.livejournal.com]

Aaah. Gotcha now.

I don't know. I still think the nature of Teaspoon readership is more fickle than this clear cut division. I mean, my most popular story by far is Dear Mike. A Doctorless "other era" story with a bunch of OCs. Written in letters. And it got more hits and more reviews than any other story I've written.

I agree that everything else being equal, a New Who story is probably going to get more hits than a Classic Who story.... but it's really hard to pin down what these conditions are, because then you got examples like Dear Mike that turn everything upside down (it's actually a trend with me. Another hugely popular story of mine is the who_like_giants entry. Hmm. Maybe it's not my OC/minor character stories but the way I write the main characters, teehee!)

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

Well, those do happen to be my two favorite stories of yours, so I would argue there's a reason why they're popular! Also, with "Dear Mike" the Calufrax rec throws off the hit rate calculations, because that draws more people to try the story out -- but every review it got was earned, and well deserved.

And hey, you did win at smith_awards with a marvelous main-character story. Speaking of which, I never did review that one on Teaspoon, but I did give you a positive vote review, does that count? *g* "Fade Away" seems to be doing well too, and that's a wonderful story.

[pitry.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the hits for Dear Mike I understand (esp. as it set on the featured stories for about half a year, as well!) but I've seen some brilliant stories that got recced on calufrax and then still got very few reviews, so I'm still horribly confused about that. Happily horribly confused mind! But still... :)

And, sigh. The smith awards story. I'm way too ambivalent with it to be really happy about it - I mean, I know I shouldn't complain, but it's hardly what I consider one of my best stories, and TBH I thought there were much better stories running in that category that didn't get that far (my personal winner is still Five Times After Goodbye and I'm sticking to it, damnit!).

Also, cheers for saying Fade Away is a wonderful story... :) but I have to admit I'm sort of automatically discounting it and Hello I Love You. I probably shouldn't, and I'm probably doing a huge generalisation that is quite unfair to a lot of people... but Rose/Ten stories tend to get a lot of reviews. Period. No matter what the context is. So it's really hard to judge based on reactions alone whether I succeeded in writing something good or not (although, I guess if I get a number of "I don't usually like these stories but..." I should consider it as good. I don't know! :( )

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

Rose/Ten stories tend to get a lot of reviews. Period. No matter what the context is. So it's really hard to judge based on reactions alone whether I succeeded in writing something good or not

Fair point. Also, fair point about the brilliant Calufrax stories that get no reviews. I've definitely seen good stories that weren't popular (even after getting recced), and popular stories that weren't any good (at least, in my opinion). I think it's not only the number of reviews you get, but what they say that can guide you (a lot of "Oh, I just *love* Ten/Rose!" is a hint that maybe it's the genre that's making it so popular -- although that still doesn't mean the story isn't good, of course).

If it helps any, I can honestly say that my liking those stories had absolutely nothing to do with them being Ten/Rose. If anything, that gave them a disadvantage. : )

[pitry.livejournal.com]

Awww, cheers! *is happy*

[pitry.livejournal.com]

Also, YAY@ plugging dw_concrete. Thankee :D

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

You're welcome! It's a great comm. Not only did it help me see what went wrong with "Subtext: Silence in the Library / Forest of the Dead," but I think I finally also see what went right with the original "Subtext," and why it's so much more popular.

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

Having had a totally pointless and nasty anon review on cot_tossed for "A Shift in Perspective" (pointless because the reviewer clearly didn't read more than the first first paragraphs of chapter one before tearing it to shreds, as was obvious from the fact she summarised the plot of the story incorrectly!), I'm afraid I'm going NOWHERE near any anon review comms. If people want to tell me what they think, they can do so "to my face", ie on my LJ or Teaspoon with a signed review. If they don't have sufficient courage of the convictions to do that, I'm not interested in their opinion.

This probably seems harsh, but it's how I feel.

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

No, it's not harsh, it's how you feel, and it's perfectly legitimate to feel that way -- understandable, too, given that you had a bad experience once.

One thing about this comm is that anyone can review, and it's made very clear that any given review is simply one person's opinion. Also, reviews can be discussed, and more than one person can review the same story. Finally, the stories have to be volunteered by the author, and yes I do admit that I thought long and hard about whether I was willing to see the story I put up possibly get torn to shreds, or misunderstood, or torn to shreds because it was misunderstood.

Anyway, I'm sure you'd be welcome to submit a review even if you never put a story up, but I understand if you'd prefer to never go near the comm.

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know - I investigated the comm quite thoroughly after I saw it had been set up.

I guess my biggest issue is with the whole anonymity thing. If I'm spending that amount of time in writing a review for someone, then I actually want them to know it was me - particularly if it's a fic I wouldn't otherwise have read. And equally, if someone's going to take rather more time and trouble to review a fic than it takes to say "Loved this", than I want to know who they are. If you can't honestly own up to your opinions then why are you bothering?

I'm not afraid of concrit if that's what it is CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. But if someone's going to just bitch and moan because I've written the story differently to what they would have done, or what they wanted to read, then I'm not interested. NO ONE (and especially not me!) MAKES anyone read fic - you choose to do so! As I said, back when the idiots on who_anon were labelling me an oppressor with all the Martha fic I was writing, I don't go around to their houses, chain them to a chair and then force them to listen while I read them my fics. If it's not to their taste, they know where the back/scroll button is.

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

That's interesting, because I like the anonymity. I don't mind not knowing who reviewed my story, and while it wasn't a positive review, it was constructive criticism, and very helpful at that. In fact, I think that not knowing who it was allowed me to really focus on what was said as opposed to who was saying it.

I've also reviewed for the comm, and I think that being anonymous made me take more care in the review because I knew it was going to post under "the comm," if that makes sense. Again, the personal stuff got stripped away. But if the anonymity were removed and I was told I would now have to go stand behind what I said? I would, absolutely. I would never write a review that I couldn't honestly own up to, regardless of whether it was submitted anonymously or not.

back when the idiots on who_anon were labelling me an oppressor with all the Martha fic I was writing

Um, what? I don't follow who_anon. How can you oppress someone by writing Martha fic? Okay, well obviously you can't, but I don't understand why anyone would even complain about the characters someone else chooses to write. What was the problem?

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

Well, that's fair - obviously other people share your opinion, not mine, or the comm wouldn't be getting any traffic...

Um, what? I don't follow who_anon. How can you oppress someone by writing Martha fic? Okay, well obviously you can't, but I don't understand why anyone would even complain about the characters someone else chooses to write. What was the problem?

See, there's a flaw in your thinking, right there - you're expecting the haters on who_anon to be logical. A lot of the ones who were bitching about me were the most rabid of Rosefen and hated Martha and anyone who liked her or Freema instinctively. Therefore anyone who wrote lots of Martha fic, as I certainly did post-S3, and especially anyone who shipped Martha/Ten, was obviously an evil oppressor but Rose/Ten is the OTP Forevah!!

[dbskyler.livejournal.com]

A lot of the ones who were bitching about me were the most rabid of Rosefen and hated Martha and anyone who liked her or Freema instinctively.

I've been trying to think of what to say to that, but really I have nothing. Loving a character? That's great. Loving a pairing? That's great too. Loving a pairing so much that you decide it's an OTP? Sure, why not? Bashing a different character because you perceive her as somehow interfering with your OTP? That's both silly and disturbing. Bashing a fellow fan because she likes this character you've now decided you detest? That's . . . well, that's where words fail me.

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

Well yeah, but then again, you're a reasonable person, and well adjusted. Many of the who_anon posters have the mental age of a 12 year old (even when they're 30+!)

[pitry.livejournal.com]

Hmmm.

First thing, I did think like dbskyler - for some people, anonymity is needed to give their honest opinion - you know, not out of intention to offend, but because these things are so sensitive (and let's admit it, out fanfics are our babies! Except for some of my fanfics which I disown...) and they're afraid to mess up friendships if their honest opinion is taken up too well.
OR, the other way round. Afraid people won't give their honest opinion because they would be afraid it would be taken the wrong way. Thing is, I get what you say about anonymity, and in a perfect world you'd be right, but internet fandom in general, not just Who, simply doesn't work that way.

Which leads us to the second part, which is, yes, these reviews are anonymous, but not exactly. I could have set this up with a sock puppet. I could also have let people post their reviews anonymously directly to the comm. It's not by accident all reviews are posted under my username - no, I didn't write all of them, but I, personally, am taking responsibility for any review that's posted through the comm. That's sort of my way of circumnavigating the biggest problem about anonymity (at least the bit I feel is the biggest problem) - the no responsibility bit.

But, of course, you're free to disagree, that's the beauty of the internet. ;)

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

Well, as I said, I realise I'm in the minority, and I realise my reaction is biased owing to the nastiness I've previously encountered from anonymous "reviews". Obviously not everyone's going to agree with me - nor do I expect them to - despite the claims that I'm an Evil Oppressor who wants to sway everyone to my thinking.

[curuchamion.livejournal.com]

...I always wondered where the "evil oppressor Persiflage" joke came from! Many things now make a lot more sense. ;-)

[persiflage-1.livejournal.com]

You only had to ask and I'd have explained...