Entry tags:
Big Bang!
I've seen the finale! In fact, I've seen it twice, and I predict that it will be three times before the end of the day.
So, to start:
1) That didn't make a lick of sense.
2) I loved it all the same.
I'm faintly astonished by this, to be honest. Usually, I demand my stories to make sense, first and foremost. And here I am with a story where what actually occurred got more than a little lost in the muddle. Did Amy's adventures with the Doctor ever happen? If so, then how is Rory alive? If not, then how is the Doctor back, and how is the timeline repaired? Does Rory have memories of being an Auton? If so, how can he? When the Doctor's timeline unraveled, didn't that mean that the Earth got destroyed several times over? And that Gallifrey didn't get destroyed? And that Sutekh destroyed everything? How can Amy remembering the Doctor bring him back, anyhow? And even if you accept that she can bring the Doctor back, how can she bring the TARDIS back?
The first time through the episode, I just sat back and enjoyed. Then I started thinking things over, and I realized how much muddle there was, and I watched it again -- and enjoyed it every bit as much as the first time. Yes, I can honestly say for perhaps the first time in my viewing history that I don't care about the muddle. It's as if understanding what really happened is irrelevant -- which perhaps it is.
What did I love? Well, the whole thing, really. I don't think there's a moment of this that I didn't absolutely enjoy.
-- "1,894 years later" -- What a way to start! And![[profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
tempestus_inu had completely set me up to believe that the Doctor was locked in there for 2000 years, and when I saw that we were jumping almost 2000 years ahead I was sure of it! And then the Pandorica opened and it was Amy inside! I was yelling "What? WHAT????" at the screen, I swear it!
-- No stars in the sky! The entire universe is collapsing! And I was wrong and the TARDIS did explode after all, which apparently we didn't get to fully see due to budget cuts. Too bad, because that would have upped last week's cliffhanger for me about a thousand-fold, but oh well. I suppose it's also partly my own fault for not believing that the TARDIS could explode and a way could be found back from that.
-- The Doctor zipping in and out with the vortex manipulator! All of those scenes were simply wonderful. And THE FEZ!!!! I was so happy to see it. And the whole "fezzes are cool," and the Doctor's decision that from now on he is wearing a fez! Too bad it got disintegrated. I hope the fez comes back next season.
-- The whole business with Amy, Amelia and Rory running around the museum, and the Doctor getting shot -- and apparently killed (I totally believed he was dead, although obviously I didn't believe he would stay dead).
-- Apparently the Blinovitch Limitation Effect is no longer operative, except perhaps in the case of sonic screwdrivers. Or did Amy and Amelia's ability to touch each other sans explosions and/or Reapers have to do with the different timelines, or the universe collapsing? Oh, never mind, I've given up trying to understand it, I'll just enjoy it . . .
-- The Doctor is alive, but he is going to never have existed! And then he says goodbye to Amy . . . eep eep eep!
-- The Doctor is alive! But no, he isn't -- his timeline is unraveling!
-- Jacket!Doctor!!!!!!! We were right, that moment in "Flesh and Stone" WAS a different Doctor! I KNEW it!!!!!!!!!!!! Of course, it turns out that Jacket!Doctor doesn't really do much of anything, except manage to save himself by telling Amelia a bedtime story. But did he know he was going to show up when Amy was 7 and tell her that story when he said "remember what I told you when you were 7"? How could he know as he is apparently jumping back through time at random? Or was he able to stop himself at certain points? I was a little unclear on the whole "time is unraveling" thing, I admit it. If it was a plan, then why tell Amy to remember when the whole adventure with the Weeping Angels was about to cease to exist? Wouldn't the fact that he told her to remember suddenly not have happened? Have I mentioned how much of a muddle some of this actual plot is? But it doesn't matter, because:
-- The Doctor picks up the sleeping-and-waiting Amelia, takes her to her room and tells her a heartfelt goodbye as a bedtime story. He doesn't belong there anymore -- oh, poor Doctor!
-- Amy sees River's diary, opens it and it's completely blank -- I felt like my heart had been cut out, truly. Such a simple thing, but it really illustrated the void left by the Doctor no longer having existed.
-- The Doctor comes back! Great moment, even though it didn't really make sense. And he's wearing tails, and ready to dance! Which didn't make sense on top of not making sense, because did he exist before Amy remembered him? If he didn't exist, how did he get dressed for the wedding? You see the problem. No, stop trying to make sense of it, just let it ride . . .
And biggest surprise of all is that apparently we have to wait until the next season to find out the rest of what happened! Little things like why did the TARDIS explode in the first place, purposefully put on hold! Also that tease with River . . . I hope we find out who it was she killed. I hope we find out more on who River really is. And I hope she's not married to the Doctor -- I still don't like that idea, and I don't like how Moffat is teasing us with it. At least the two of them didn't kiss!
All in all, it was a worthy finale, definitely one of my favorites. Now, when is SJA starting up?
So, to start:
1) That didn't make a lick of sense.
2) I loved it all the same.
I'm faintly astonished by this, to be honest. Usually, I demand my stories to make sense, first and foremost. And here I am with a story where what actually occurred got more than a little lost in the muddle. Did Amy's adventures with the Doctor ever happen? If so, then how is Rory alive? If not, then how is the Doctor back, and how is the timeline repaired? Does Rory have memories of being an Auton? If so, how can he? When the Doctor's timeline unraveled, didn't that mean that the Earth got destroyed several times over? And that Gallifrey didn't get destroyed? And that Sutekh destroyed everything? How can Amy remembering the Doctor bring him back, anyhow? And even if you accept that she can bring the Doctor back, how can she bring the TARDIS back?
The first time through the episode, I just sat back and enjoyed. Then I started thinking things over, and I realized how much muddle there was, and I watched it again -- and enjoyed it every bit as much as the first time. Yes, I can honestly say for perhaps the first time in my viewing history that I don't care about the muddle. It's as if understanding what really happened is irrelevant -- which perhaps it is.
What did I love? Well, the whole thing, really. I don't think there's a moment of this that I didn't absolutely enjoy.
-- "1,894 years later" -- What a way to start! And
tempestus_inu had completely set me up to believe that the Doctor was locked in there for 2000 years, and when I saw that we were jumping almost 2000 years ahead I was sure of it! And then the Pandorica opened and it was Amy inside! I was yelling "What? WHAT????" at the screen, I swear it!-- No stars in the sky! The entire universe is collapsing! And I was wrong and the TARDIS did explode after all, which apparently we didn't get to fully see due to budget cuts. Too bad, because that would have upped last week's cliffhanger for me about a thousand-fold, but oh well. I suppose it's also partly my own fault for not believing that the TARDIS could explode and a way could be found back from that.
-- The Doctor zipping in and out with the vortex manipulator! All of those scenes were simply wonderful. And THE FEZ!!!! I was so happy to see it. And the whole "fezzes are cool," and the Doctor's decision that from now on he is wearing a fez! Too bad it got disintegrated. I hope the fez comes back next season.
-- The whole business with Amy, Amelia and Rory running around the museum, and the Doctor getting shot -- and apparently killed (I totally believed he was dead, although obviously I didn't believe he would stay dead).
-- Apparently the Blinovitch Limitation Effect is no longer operative, except perhaps in the case of sonic screwdrivers. Or did Amy and Amelia's ability to touch each other sans explosions and/or Reapers have to do with the different timelines, or the universe collapsing? Oh, never mind, I've given up trying to understand it, I'll just enjoy it . . .
-- The Doctor is alive, but he is going to never have existed! And then he says goodbye to Amy . . . eep eep eep!
-- The Doctor is alive! But no, he isn't -- his timeline is unraveling!
-- Jacket!Doctor!!!!!!! We were right, that moment in "Flesh and Stone" WAS a different Doctor! I KNEW it!!!!!!!!!!!! Of course, it turns out that Jacket!Doctor doesn't really do much of anything, except manage to save himself by telling Amelia a bedtime story. But did he know he was going to show up when Amy was 7 and tell her that story when he said "remember what I told you when you were 7"? How could he know as he is apparently jumping back through time at random? Or was he able to stop himself at certain points? I was a little unclear on the whole "time is unraveling" thing, I admit it. If it was a plan, then why tell Amy to remember when the whole adventure with the Weeping Angels was about to cease to exist? Wouldn't the fact that he told her to remember suddenly not have happened? Have I mentioned how much of a muddle some of this actual plot is? But it doesn't matter, because:
-- The Doctor picks up the sleeping-and-waiting Amelia, takes her to her room and tells her a heartfelt goodbye as a bedtime story. He doesn't belong there anymore -- oh, poor Doctor!
-- Amy sees River's diary, opens it and it's completely blank -- I felt like my heart had been cut out, truly. Such a simple thing, but it really illustrated the void left by the Doctor no longer having existed.
-- The Doctor comes back! Great moment, even though it didn't really make sense. And he's wearing tails, and ready to dance! Which didn't make sense on top of not making sense, because did he exist before Amy remembered him? If he didn't exist, how did he get dressed for the wedding? You see the problem. No, stop trying to make sense of it, just let it ride . . .
And biggest surprise of all is that apparently we have to wait until the next season to find out the rest of what happened! Little things like why did the TARDIS explode in the first place, purposefully put on hold! Also that tease with River . . . I hope we find out who it was she killed. I hope we find out more on who River really is. And I hope she's not married to the Doctor -- I still don't like that idea, and I don't like how Moffat is teasing us with it. At least the two of them didn't kiss!
All in all, it was a worthy finale, definitely one of my favorites. Now, when is SJA starting up?
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Rory does remember being an Auton. At the wedding reception as the TARDIS is appearing you see Rory say "how did we forget the Doctor?" and then as Amy is stampeeding over the table you can hear Rory say "I was plastic."
If he didn't exist, how did he get dressed for the wedding?
He said he would cease to exist. River elaborated to Amy that they would all wake up back where they were supposed to be and not remember the Doctor and that he would be trapped in the Void. I guess he got dressed for the wedding while he waited in the Void. My question is how did River end up at the wedding if she is from 3000 years in the future and didn't remember him? More for next season I guess.
Personally I think (hope) this may be a clever ploy of Moff to sit back now and let fandom find all the plot holes. He can then collect them and write up explainations for them in the next season.
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I love that the cracks and the silence turned out to not be from the same origin.
They're not? I missed that. I got that the cracks are from the TARDIS exploding, but I don't remember any explanation at all about where the silence is from. What did I miss? (This might be because I still have problems understanding the dialogue sometimes -- lines here and there where I'm not sure exactly what was said. I'm looking forward to the DVD and subtitles!)
The reason I'm able to happily hand-wave the plot holes is because we DON'T know all the details yet.
Very good point! We know that we're not supposed to know it all yet. Also, there's a difference between being told a nonsensical explanation and not being given an explanation at all, and I seem able to accept unexplained things more easily.
Another reason I loved it was it ended HAPPY! I really go so tired of the season finales ending with gloom and doom and tragedy and sacrifice. I loved the happy ending.
Yes! I loved that as well. Nice to not have angsty!Doctor closing things out. Not only did we get happy wedding and dancing, but now both Amy and Rory are coming with him! YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
as Amy is stampeeding over the table you can hear Rory say "I was plastic."
Ah, see, I missed that. I'll have to listen for it on re-watch #2. But how can he remember that??????
I guess he got dressed for the wedding while he waited in the Void.
I suppose that's possible. So he doesn't exist in the universe, but exists in the Void, and has his TARDIS and the wardrobe room? My head hurts . . .
My question is how did River end up at the wedding if she is from 3000 years in the future and didn't remember him?
Very good question. She presumably would've been "reset" to her own time, so how did she get back to 2010 without the vortex manipulator? And why would she leave Amy her diary? Did River remember, too? Actually, I'm wondering if the River at the end of the episode came from the same time as compared to the River in the rest of the episode. Perhaps she was a future River?
Personally I think (hope) this may be a clever ploy of Moff to sit back now and let fandom find all the plot holes. He can then collect them and write up explainations for them in the next season.
LOL, maybe!
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And as
This finale has achieved making a bleak mood transform into one of laughter in a matter of minutes. "Ridiculous miracle" indeed.
Clearly the events at the Byzantium still happen, seeing as River told him "I'll meet you again when the Pandorica Opens" though yes, that is one massive plothole. I think alot of River related questions will be answered soon. Speaking of River, I love the relationship she's got going with the Doctor, but I'm also not going to believe that she's his "wife". I swear Moffat's dropping those rather obvious hints only to shoot them down.
I think one of the things about the crack is that it doesn't really wipe out your existence, only wipes the memory. Rory still saved the Doctor from death even if he was apparently "wiped" from the universe, and Amy still existed even if her parents didn't. Just because they aren't remembered doesn't mean they were never there. When the Doctor came back into the universe, memory of him and his adventures were restored.
As for the Blinovitch Limitation and other time-space law-breaking thigns... I think the explanation was that after some point, hwo could those universe-breaking paradox break a universe that's already broken?
This is why I said "sit back and enjoy the ride".
Favorite bits?
The Doctor egging Rory on and getting socked in the face for it XD. Also "Why do you have to be so human?" "Because right now I'm not".
the Doctor's two goodbyes to Amy, I swear those nearly made me cry. I loved his monologue about the "Daft old man who stole a magic box and ran away".
"I'm not Mr. Pond, that's not how it works!"
"Yeah it is"
"Yeeaahhh it is". XD
TRIO IN THE TARDIS! OH MY GOD I WAS SO RIDICULOUSLY HAPPY WHEN BOTH AMY AND RORY DECIDED TO STAY. The Doctor was too, because you could tell he was expecting them to leave him. I'm glad they've proven him wrong.
Little pet theories of mine!
1) Rory met Jack during his 2000 year long wait. They can be "the boys who waited" together!
2) The "star cults", or at least people who believed in stars, include the Doctor's past companions. In fact, there was a fic I read following the finale that had Sarah Jane write a journalism report on "stars" XD.
I love this finale for leaving me with a big fat grin on my face in the end. And I've made a monster of this comment haven't I?
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Honestly, I wasn't sure. I trusted that you wouldn't give me a huge spoiler, but I knew something was going to be up along those lines, and then we got 1,894 years later right at the top of the episode, and so yes, at that moment I was convinced he was in there! And I was going "Oh no, I can't believe the Doctor's been locked up all this time," and then it was AMY and I was completely shocked! And at least 50% of it was because of YOU! So yes, feel accomplished. :D
Clearly the events at the Byzantium still happen, seeing as River told him "I'll meet you again when the Pandorica Opens" though yes, that is one massive plothole.
I think I need to go back and re-watch the end of "Flesh and Stone" now. Apparently everything happened, although it has all also been reset? Is that how Rory is alive, but it all happened anyway, and he also remembers his time as an Auton? I'm so confused! But oddly, I also am still not that bothered by it. You were right, it was a great ride regardless.
The "star cults", or at least people who believed in stars, include the Doctor's past companions.
I like that idea. I need to go seek out all the fic and posts I've missed out on due to avoiding spoilers!
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Also, I read your comment above, I'm also wondering whether or not that version of River at the wedding was a different version of her, one from yet another timeline, rather than River right after the events of Big Bang II.
Oh! One last thing, you were right! I ended up watching the episodee at 6:00, and it worked out for the better... well, except for the fact that it was still pretty light out when I watched it with my dad and the episode is in my opinion is a more effective watch at night, but whatever. Now I don't have to worry so much about missing the 9:00 one, thanks for the info the other day.
Enjoy catching up, there's been some great stuff produced since the finale aired.
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Congratulations on having the strength to wait for it to air!
Glad you enjoyed it! Isn't it LOVELY to have a happy season finale?!
Also, there's a lot that got left unexplained, including who took control of the TARDIS and was intoning "Silence will fall".
And I'm quite convinced that River-at-the-wedding is an older!River (ie from later in her time-stream) than the one who was at Stonehenge. I think that's hinted at in the way she looks - they've given her a more mature outfit/hairstyle, etc so Alex looks physically older than she does in the first half of the episode.
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And this quote spam is what you mean, I think... (as opposed to the Big Finish Meme of Lurve Quote Spam I posted more recently)...
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:)
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